- EO Charging offers a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Industrial Officer John Walsh advised us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must maintain their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a undertaking, together with good power administration, will help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging gives month-to-month fee plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, as a way to deal with completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a website online or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely on a stack, which is a hip approach of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely on extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which might be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area comparable to EV charging infrastructure, it might be laborious for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them will be complicated—just like the checklist of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms focus on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services and products themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s one of the best course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Industrial Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, comparable to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which might be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re concentrating on these as effectively.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging at this time—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve obtained what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Industrial Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about loads. I for one thought it was an incredible firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by way of the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, just a little bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had a whole lot of capital that obtained burned by way of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was bought in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had one of the best battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless one of the best battery know-how. There are a whole lot of firms that can use their battery techniques and have a whole lot of success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by way of the know-how that was given beginning by Proterra.
Sorting by way of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are a whole lot of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve gotten your personal proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options primarily based on the facility ranges that they want. Once you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually vital that individuals neglect. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s a must to keep the chargers?” Effectively, that you must keep your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly a very powerful piece we have now, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even understand it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep. If you happen to decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are pissed off with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, keep it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
One in every of our authentic buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You possibly can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that a whole lot of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do companion with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we’d companion with somebody. I’ll companion on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as unhealthy. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit businesses—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was once I obtained to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve obtained three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They might have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see the whole lot in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit businesses about reliability at their depots, and it was solely once I obtained to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their palms.”
For these about to impress
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “It is advisable pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you’ve gotten Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, in the event you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We obtained 100 vans. We now have to cost all of them. We’ve obtained one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s once you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Effectively, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do a whole lot of modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles we have now. That is the power storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we have now on the depot.” We mannequin for them the dimensions charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the power as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of evening at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but additionally work with firms like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Effectively, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing a whole lot of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping the whole lot out—rip and exchange. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses beneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. All the things within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous vital.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with firms like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We obtained a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as ordinary.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they had been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we have now to cope with a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which might be going electrical that don’t should. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Effectively, at this time, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They refill at evening, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month payment
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Degree 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month payment—it’s $59. That bundle is actually enticing to a whole lot of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some clients have a whole lot of idle time. Some clients are placing a whole lot of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want a whole lot of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we’d go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from someone in Kansas that is likely to be working a good distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Degree 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We now have our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Degree 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with a whole lot of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is actually enticing—you don’t should get right into a Degree 3, which will be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we have now them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We now have them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Degree 2 charger in Europe, however the one we have now right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, once you see our label on it, it’s a must to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s someone else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re glad.
The standard questions on tendencies
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s a whole lot of firms, and a few them just lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Not too long ago, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we want the precise variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I feel consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We now have a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s perhaps half the dimensions of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they’ll add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking on area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high price, however it lets you cut up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one among our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the client. Residing right here in Florida, if we have now a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve obtained an influence station proper right here—we’ve obtained 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with power. I simply should have the aptitude to drag it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
